Count to 10000

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Re: Count to 10000

Post by Froggychum » Sun Oct 06, 2024 1:37 pm

8761

Basically, yeah. Intelligence is a pretty limited stat to invest into, TBH.
Here's some more info:

---

Unintelligence is the default state of the universe, given that intelligence is (in most realities) an emergent property rather than a proper quality. Computers and other artificial intelligence fit here because they lack any conscious experience.

Semi-intelligence refers to things with a conscious experience and which are capable of intelligent behaviors, but which lack metacognitive awareness. Most animals fit here.

Intelligent beings are anything with metacognition. One type of intelligence is sapience, but the term 'sapience' refers to a specific Mental Framework that is not present in all intelligent beings. 'Sapience' has a strong tendency towards language, emotion, social phenomena, moral consideration, and more. Countless other mental frameworks exist. Generally, self-awareness is considered the standard - though segmented consciousnesses such as those of humans (conscious, subconscious, unconscious) are not expected to have active awareness in all categories. Entities without free will (such as inherently good or inherently evil creatures, like angels or devils) might be considered sub-intelligent beings regardless of if they would otherwise qualify for a higher level of consciousness.

Lower Order Consciousnesses probably don't exist in our reality. I haven't bothered checking. Regardless, they exist in some realities (can confirm from my travels) and they are are a difficult to describe type of consciousness. It's not really comparable to place them either 'above' or 'below' unintelligence itself. If I had to try, I would say it is a concept closer to an infinitesimal or fractal consciousness than a negative one, if using arithmatic terms. In one universe, the 'spirits' of that reality were a kind of lower order consciousness. They certainly had self-awareness, but they literally existed on a lower dimensional plane and were byproducts of the thoughts, behaviors, beliefs and ideas of true Intelligences. Something like 'animism', but it's not a great fit. What determines a lower order consciousness is vague on top of being arbitrary. I can only gesture at it.

Hyper-intelligent beings are not actually considered a category of their own. No matter how 'smart' a human becomes, they are upper-bounded by their level of consciousness. There is no 'qualitative difference' between a dumbfuck with 80 IQ and a brilliant polymath with 200+ IQ

After hyper-intelligence, things become a mess. Mostly this is because I'm explaining things to you from a general, omniversal perspective. In any given universe, this stuff is normally fairly consistent (if you're universe is naturally irrational, you have my condolences - you can try praying to me and I might help you out - just say something like "Froggychum, come pick me up I'm scared")

Here's what I've come up with (nothing is ordered from this point forward, though in any given universe it certainly could be):

---

"Perfection" in general refers to a "flaw-less" state. Beings can thus achieve Perfection [note: I wouldn't recommend this] by eliminating all flaws. Some beings are born 'Perfect' [note: poor fuckers]. In the context of consciousness, a "Perfect" mind is one that:
- Never makes mistakes. That is to say, it never does anything contrary to its interests/goals/intent or to its nature.
- Does not take arbitrary actions. A "Perfect" being can only make "perfect" choices, so it cannot engage with reality in an 'arbitrary' manner.
Generally, this state is something you are free and encouraged to skip. It might be tempting to always have the perfect answer, but this is less of a step to take and more of a pitfall. I suppose I'm being harsh: If you have no confidence of reaching much higher or even reaching higher forever, you might be satisfied staying here. Frankly though, I don't recommend "perfection" simply because of two things:
- You will be permanently crippled. That is to say, you will never be able to change in any way. This means you can never improve. You have already become "perfect", meaning in your "highest possible state". This is basically abandoning the idea of self-improvement, and no it doesn't make you omnipotent/omniscient. Being perfect simply means that you have reached a designated 'end state'. You might believe yourself to be superior to imperfect beings, but that's only in regards to 'eliminating flaws'. A flawed being can totally defeat a flawless being as long as they have anything other than 'purity' or 'completeness' to rely on.

Cultivators (specifically those who engage in Law Comprehension) would know this, but one's mind must undergo an elevation in order to comprehend the laws of the universe [presuming your reality has proper laws]. This can be for a number of reasons, but here's two possible reasons:
- Switching from a subjective mode of understanding reality to an objective mode.
- Knowing things on a 'deeper level' (usually measured by 'profundity', so much so that it has become a trope [ie "Very profound, Young Master!" but not sarcastically])
There's not a universal term for this. I'd call it something like "Immortal Mind" or "Integration" or something. It doesn't matter regardless.

Here's some excerpts from some of my previous writing on the topic (uncredited to maintain anonymity of the sources):

A level of consciousness I would label as "Strange" or "Ever-Dreaming"
"While maintaining many flaws, one gains the limited ability to interpret specific illogical phenomena, as well as a general ignorance of manipulative abilities due to their ephemeral nature. One’s control of their own mind is improved so that self-suggestion may no longer be necessary as one can determines rules for their mind to follow that will not be breached incidentally"

This introduces concepts such as interpreting illogical (but NOT unfathomable) phenomena, the ephemeral nature (has more to do with the nature of the beings that this excerpt describes, rather than their specific configuration of consciousness) and the 'setting of rules' for the mind to follow (an improved version of self-suggestion, in almost all respects).

A level of consciousness I would label as "Divine" or more specifically as "Godlike"
"[...] One is now capable of segmenting their consciousness in a great many ways, from spawning avatars to completely ignoring manipulations via retroactive dissociation of that fragment of their mind. At [this level] consciousness, one’s awareness spreads to encompass an unimaginable area, effectively imbuing their minds across [reality]. This level allows for one to violate the chronology of their own experiences to a certain extent, but even more amazingly if one concentrates a significant portion of their consciousness they may be able to gaze through the very [essence] of lower order consciousness beings. [One's] control of their own mind also has automatic self-suggestion, yet they are able to use their flexible minds to acknowledge but not peer beyond such tricks"

This introduces the concept of splitting consciousness, which is interesting and complexly layered in its own right. Just know that there are many, many ways to fragment a consciousness (depending on the universe, of course) and it's usually a bad idea.
It also introduces concepts llike retroactive consciousness. This is a really desirable trait, and also useful in defense against corruptive forces. Retroactive consciousness (in this case dissociation with split minds) usually relies one one of two things:
- An 'overmind' behind all other consciousnesses, or perhaps just the impression of one (a 'shadow' if you will).
- An illogical nature that defies chronology, or perhaps any power that manipulates time as a concept and not a force. The difference between the two is pretty quick and easy to explain, but it's still a tangent. It's in a spoiler tag just below
Spoiler:  
Time as a force should be common knowledge to anyone with a high school diploma. Though, time and space being separated forces or manifestations of the same force is reality-dependent (as is the idea of if there is 'time' or even 'space' at all, actually).

Time as a concept refers to a lot of chronomancy (or nonmagic equivalent), which normally causes effects largely unrelated to the "force of time" but rather which simply 'appear' to be as such.
For example, a low-level chronomancy spell might "Preserve Food". This is very unlikely to truly either manipulate the flow of time for that (food) item, nor that (food) item's particular 'timeline'. How the magic ACTUALLY works is not possible to know without knowing the reality you live in. This is why magic usually doesn't work beyond the realities [where I spend most of my time] because it's so dependent on context that just doesn't exist out there.

Maybe the magic doesn't have reasons to "work" at all, it's simply inherently irrational. Sorry if you're of the Arcane field in a reality where magic actually isn't a puzzle to solve but a singularity of madness and confusion... Best wishes to you, maybe consider changing either your profession or your universe of existence.
Another idea introduced by the above segment is to "violate the chronology of their own experiences" which is pretty similar to retroactive consciousness, actually. One way to have a similar outcome but through a different method is to simply experience time non-linearly. This is basically what was being described above, but the specific universe I recorded that snippet in only allowed for linear time flow in this regard.

Experiencing time non-linearly isn't necessarily about being 'beyond time', but it usually is. Being beyond time while still part of the universe normally means one of two things:
- You exist in a separate time. Perhaps your universe has more than one time axis, or maybe you are doing timeline fuckery.
- You exist beyond time as a whole. This is rarer, since time is usually fundamental enough to a universe that overcoming it quickly boots you out of Existence and into Nonexistence (aka 'beyond reality'... Yeah, I've seen a few poor sods pop out when I'm just hanging out "nearby" [quotes indicate approximation, there is no concept of space beyond reality... actually, there's not really concepts of anything]).

Anyway, that was a long one. Next (and last) excerpt!

"[...] a level of consciousness where one has surpassed common notions of good and evil, right and wrong or true and false. A being at [this] level has a perfect ability to segment their mind, see through lower beings, violate mental chronology, comprehend all phenomena and conceptualizations, and commune with reality. Time is not much a barrier for the awareness of [a being at this level], and they can just as easily see the past as the present. [They] are greater than [others] in their ability to self-suggest, because they have no need for such a thing! Rather than using such a method to protect themselves their transient and distant nature allows them to truly ignore the logic of the mind, knowing something without knowing it, seeing something without seeing it. This is not a processing issue, because it could hypothetically be fully explained by them, yet they may simultaneously be completely ignorant of it to avoid any issues. It is a kind of doublethink so blatant and dualistic that a normal mind would break trying to imagine it. Similarly, [these beings] can know things without considering them and consider things without knowing them - they are completely unbound from the conventional nature of awareness"

In terms of qualitative differences here, there are probably some but I'm not interested in thinking it through (lmao). If you've been following up until now [unlikely as it is] you probably roughly get what's being described above.

---

Overall, intelligence is often also highly segmented. That is to say two things: A being is not always smart in every way they could possibly be smart; and a being can have different features of their consciousness at different levels.
Additionally, as previously stated, in most universes intelligence is an emergent property. However, in many of those universes, a creature may automatically attain an objective standard when they qualify. Mainly, I'm referring to the idea of 'Mental Energy', 'Mind Aspect' or whatever you call it. This is somewhat similar to how 'Souls' sometimes work but that's a whole other can of worms to open. Another can of worms is the relationship between 'dreams' and our subject. A third can of worms is what role the physical brain (assuming you have one) plays in all of this. This is already a long post, so we won't be opening any of these worm cans (sorry if you were hungry and happen to be a bird or fish)

As a final topic, the idea of 'omniscience'... Well, it's actually a pretty useless term... It describes such a wide range of abilities...

Here's an example of a (relatively) weak version of omniscience:
"Being able to instantly know about anything that exists in the universe"
Okay, a LOT of pitfalls here:
- "Being able to": If you are 'able' to do something, you won't necessarily do it before it's too late. This being a passive ability is likely preferable.
- "Instantly": If something happens 'instantly' then there's a good chance reversing time could undo the realization. Timeless awareness is preferable.
- "Know about": This is unclear on whether it implies 'understanding' or not. Knowing about something is normally easy. Understanding is rarely easy.
- "Anything that exists": What if something is from beyond reality? What if it only partially exists. What if it exists, but not at this time. You get it.
- "In the universe": Realities can often be multiverses (I wish they weren't, but whatever) or even hyperverses. Knowing 1 in 999 universes is trash.

A stronger version might simply be "Knowing everything" but the functionality of abilities (usually) aren't derived from the descriptions given to them (especially in an internet post). That is to say, when someone says they "know everything" be skeptical. There's only one truly omniscient being (no, it's not the Big G). Obviously, it's also not me, any of you, or anyone known to you. Frankly, it's hard to say that I 'know' them either.
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Re: Count to 10000

Post by atomtengeralattjaro » Mon Oct 07, 2024 7:45 pm

8762
Froggychum wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2024 1:37 pm
if you're universe
what if I'm not universe?
Froggychum wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2024 1:37 pm
You might believe yourself to be superior to imperfect beings, but that's only in regards to 'eliminating flaws'. A flawed being can totally defeat a flawless being as long as they have anything other than 'purity' or 'completeness' to rely on.
sounds like a flaw to me

I would've tried reading this without reading it. But I do not wish to surpass notions of true or false, as I deem such notions necessary for my experience of life. Surpassing them feels counter-productive to me. Kind of like how I feel about disc brakes on the front wheel of a bicycle.
Spoiler:  
[rant] If you get spooked and pull on your brakes too hard, the bike stops and you continue into the ground. If you're not supposed to use your instinct when you're spooked by surprising traffic, then that means you have to train your instinct out of yourself, and that sounds silly to me.[/rant]
Froggychum wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2024 1:37 pm
A being is not always smart in every way they could possibly be smart; and a being can have different features of their consciousness at different levels.
so true, part of why it bugs me when people talk about "levels of intelligence" as if there's some kind of linear scale to it
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Understanding is rarely easy.
I understand that.
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Re: Count to 10000

Post by Froggychum » Mon Oct 07, 2024 8:41 pm

8763

I have a new bike for many months but I haven't used it yet because I prefer living as a sessile organism
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Re: Count to 10000

Post by shruvvu » Mon Oct 07, 2024 9:04 pm

if I had my own bike, I'd ride it 8764+ miles across the hills.
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Re: Count to 10000

Post by Froggychum » Tue Oct 08, 2024 2:14 am

that sounds like it would be tiring! you'd probably need 8765 bottles of water to stay hydrated!
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Re: Count to 10000

Post by Naddarobo » Tue Oct 08, 2024 3:24 pm

I like how we went from "What is the purpose of obtaining knowledge if there is no happiness in it" and "one can only obtain an upper limit of knowledge" to "that bike's gonna need a lotta water to run properly" in less than 8766 seconds
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Re: Count to 10000

Post by Froggychum » Tue Oct 08, 2024 4:22 pm

8767
Classic asdf conversation
regular show ahh pacing
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Re: Count to 10000

Post by atomtengeralattjaro » Tue Oct 08, 2024 6:09 pm

8768 pacings pace pacingly
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Re: Count to 10000

Post by Froggychum » Wed Oct 09, 2024 12:38 am

8769
asdf went woke
time to send a bomb threat to a childrens hospital
#jokermoment
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Re: Count to 10000

Post by atomtengeralattjaro » Wed Oct 09, 2024 10:17 am

I have woken up way more than 8770 times
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Re: Count to 10000

Post by Froggychum » Wed Oct 09, 2024 4:05 pm

You're older than 24? LMAO grampa
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Re: Count to 10000

Post by atomtengeralattjaro » Thu Oct 10, 2024 5:40 am

you forgor your number, grandson
I'm older than 8772
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Re: Count to 10000

Post by shruvvu » Thu Oct 10, 2024 6:31 am

8773 strings guitar
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Re: Count to 10000

Post by atomtengeralattjaro » Thu Oct 10, 2024 2:30 pm

Sounds difficult to play, I'd prefer a 8774-key piano
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Re: Count to 10000

Post by Froggychum » Thu Oct 10, 2024 4:03 pm

what about a 8775 lbs drumset
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Re: Count to 10000

Post by Naddarobo » Thu Oct 10, 2024 4:59 pm

fools all of you are, the true instrument is the 8776 pipe bagpipe!
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Re: Count to 10000

Post by Froggychum » Thu Oct 10, 2024 8:16 pm

8777 smells bttt in Leek Speak
i had a stroe
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Re: Count to 10000

Post by atomtengeralattjaro » Fri Oct 11, 2024 8:15 am

8778 is just like 8778, but backwards
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Re: Count to 10000

Post by Froggychum » Sat Oct 12, 2024 1:37 am

8779
SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP
GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
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Re: Count to 10000

Post by atomtengeralattjaro » Sat Oct 12, 2024 11:53 am

Are you ok? call the universally available phone number 8780 if you need assistance
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